Let’s Build Our Own UFOs & UAPs So Witnesses Won’t Be Embarrassed
I was wandering aimlessly around the internet asking questions about the Space Station and other things in orbit, and thinking about different orbits etc. Toward the end of the rambling that’s stuck in the middle of this essay, I thought of this more interesting thing that I put upfront:
Look, we already have credible witnesses for craft flying at impossible speeds. Since it’s been deemed impossible, those who make sightings of impossible flights are embarrassed. We don’t want pilots to suffer embarrassment. But the impossibility dogma is decided. So these points:
1. To alleviate their suffering let’s just concede that UFOs or their euphemisms such as UAPs don’t exist (it doesn’t have to be true). No one actually sees them: it’s a hallucination or misperception.
2. Let’s build our own UFOs that can fly at impossible speeds in the atmosphere. Then we can make official sightings. Everyone will feel better, and we will prove that we’re superior to the gremlins that don’t exist. If our craft work for a limited amount of time and crash, so be it. Then we can move on to more important things like lowering the price of paper clips.
3. Once these craft are produced we can announce Identified Flying Phenom (IFP) or Identified Aerial Emojis (IAE)
I was thinking about how orbital velocity changes with height & how low can you go?
Can missiles and vehicles “orbit” near ground at about 18,000 mph? A little silly searching about orbital velocity on google and wandering around about wild speculations was interesting. So I decided to formulate a question for ChatGPT even though I tend to be a little incoherent and a little too speculative
Roaming Around It Looked Like I Needed a Powerful Magnetic Field In A Small Space
So I tried to come up with some kind of question for ChatGPT. I started this way:
Starting points: use two (or more) hot plasma streams to bend each other’s path.
Sub-Goal: guide a hot plasma stream into a coiled pathway like a virtual wire coil to make a magnetic field without requiring a superconducting actual wire coil.
Context Goal: Create a vehicle traveling at surface orbital velocity near the surface of the Earth that has a protected core in a vacuum. Surface shape air resistance profile directs many interacting plasmas with feedback to shape protective magnetic fields and allow a plasma stream thing (something analogous to dissipation of heat away from vehicle) What’s the starting point of design?
Always Polite ChatGPT indulged me:
Nice brain-roll — this is a fun, hard, messy problem with roots in plasma physics, pulsed power, and spacecraft-magnetics. Below I’ll give a practical starting-point design plan you can act on today: physics concept, concrete hardware choices, simulation & lab tests, scaling pitfalls, and useful literature/ideas to read next. I’ll flag the biggest risks and show which plasma concepts you’re really steering toward (FRCs / plasma-magnet / beam–beam reconnection / RMF drive). I’ll also cite the most relevant papers/reports so you can dig deeper.
Quick conceptual summary
- A moving plasma carries electric current, which produces a magnetic field. Two (or more) nearby plasma currents exert magnetic forces on one another and can redirect/coil flows — in principle you can form a “virtual coil” (closed field topology) out of plasma currents rather than a superconducting wire. This is the same physics behind compact toroids, field-reversed configurations (FRCs), spheromaks, and plasma-magnet concepts. Wikipedia+1
- Practical route choices that match your brief:
- Make compact toroids / FRCs or spheromaks and position/merge them to create a coiled, closed-field region around the vehicle. (These are self-organized plasma current rings.) Wikipedia+1
- Use interacting plasma jets (pulsed) so their advected magnetic fields and currents wrap into a coil-like topology (two-beam reconnection / advected field interactions). Lab experiments show reconnection and field advection between laser-driven jets. Physical Review+1
- Inflated plasma magnet / mini-magnetosphere (M2P2 / Plasma Magnet): inject plasma to inflate a magnetic bubble that acts like a large virtual coil, coupling to ambient flow to create stand-off pressure. This concept has been studied for sails and shields. NIAC+1
Concrete starting-point design plan (step-by-step)
- Pick an architecture (pick one to prototype)
- Compact-toroid/FRC approach: generate persistent ring currents that enclose the protected core (best for making closed field lines near the vehicle). Wikipedia
- Interacting jets approach: mount multiple plasma gun or railgun nozzles that fire timed pulses so their currents and fields merge into a helical/coil topology around a central vacuum core. (Easier to test with pulsed power.) Physical Review+1
- Inflated plasma magnet approach: use smaller coils + plasma injection to inflate a larger magnetic bubble / sheath that provides stand-off and heat diversion. (This is closest to M2P2 / Plasma Magnet work.) NIAC+1
- Select plasma sources / hardware
- Pulsed plasma guns / pulsed plasma railguns, coaxial plasma guns, or helicon sources for continuous/steady jets. For high current rings, pulsed power (capacitor banks, fast switches) and theta-pinch/railgun style injectors are standard. (See pulsed-power & compact toroid literature.) AIP Publishing+1
- Decide control method for shaping the plasma coil
- Current geometry & timing: time multiple gun firings so jets collide/merge and produce ring currents.
- External rotating magnetic field (RMF) drive: apply rotating B fields with external coils to drive plasma current and maintain rotation / helicity — used to sustain FRCs/spheromaks. Wikipedia
- Model it before building
- Start with single-fluid MHD simulations for bulk shaping, then kinetic / PIC simulations for beam–plasma and reconnection physics where MHD breaks down (sheath, collisionless regions, electron kinetics). Use open-source MHD (e.g., PLUTO, FLASH) and PIC (e.g., OSIRIS, Smilei) or lab codes. Papers show two-beam reconnection can be nontrivial. Physical Review+1
- Lab-scale experiments (progressive)
- Bench tests: two pulsed plasma jets in vacuum chamber with B-field probes to measure advected fields and reconnection. Replicate experiments like laser-beam interactions and measure topology formation. Physical Review+1
- Scale tests: multiple jets timed to form a toroidal / helical current ring around a small test article. Diagnostics: Rogowski coils, magnetic probes, fast imaging, interferometry. Use pulsed power capacitor banks for energy. AIP Publishing
- Vehicle integration considerations
- Power & mass: generating multi-kA to MA plasma currents and sustaining them costs a lot of energy. Pulsed systems easier to implement initially, but continuous standoffs need sustained power (generators, battery/capacitors, maybe nuclear). M2P2 and plasma magnet work addresses inflation efficiency vs power. NIAC+1
- Atmospheric interaction: at surface orbital speed (~7.9 km/s) the atmosphere is dense; ionization, huge ram heating, and drag make near-surface orbit extremely hostile. Magnetic/ plasma standoff can reduce heat flux locally but will itself ionize ambient air and create drag/plasma losses. That’s a major engineering hurdle — you’re fighting continual plasma loss to the atmosphere. (See plasma sail and magnetospheric inflation scaling analyses.) NASA Science+1
- Control & feedback
- Use real-time magnetic sensors and fast current drivers to adjust jet timing and currents. Closed-loop control is essential because interacting plasmas are highly nonlinear and prone to reconnection/instability.
Key physics risks & failure modes (be explicit)
- Instabilities: tilt, shift, kink, tearing, and reconnection will disrupt the coil. FRCs/spheromaks have known instabilities that experiments/rotating-field drives attempt to mitigate. Wikipedia
- Energy losses to ambient air: collisional cooling and rapid recombination in atmosphere; you’ll need either high repetition pulses or huge power to maintain the field near ground. M2P2 is more practical in low-density solar wind than dense atmosphere. NIAC+1
- Scaling: lab demonstrations at centimeter–meter scale do not trivially scale to vehicle-sized fields — magnetic flux, stored energy, and power requirements scale quickly. AIP Publishing
Practical first experiments you can run this week (low-cost entry)
- Two-jet merging test in vacuum — build or obtain two small pulsed plasma jets (e.g., commercial plasma gun or DIY coaxial plasma gun) in a small vacuum chamber and place magnetic pickup coils to map the B-field during and after pulses. Look for evidence of current loops and field advection/reconnection. (This reproduces classic lab setups used to study reconnection.) Physical Review+1
- Single compact toroid generation — many universities publish designs for forming spheromaks/FRCs with capacitor banks and simple coils; reproduce one to study self-organized ring current formation. Wikipedia
- Simulate — run an MHD code (e.g., PLUTO) of two counter-directed current jets approaching each other — measure field lines and v×B forces — iterate designs before hardware changes. arXiv+1
Suggested reading / references (to get you deeper quickly)
- Field-Reversed Configurations (FRC) — overview and formation methods. Wikipedia
- The Plasma Magnet / M2P2 NIAC report — practical analysis of using injected plasma to inflate a magnetospheric bubble. Good for standoff scaling. NIAC+1
- Magnetic reconnection & two-beam plasma experiments (Nilson et al., PRL) — shows how merging beams produce reconnection and new topologies. Physical Review+1
- Pulsed power and generation of strong magnetic fields (pulsed experiments & diagnostics). AIP Publishing
Bottom line / recommendation
- Start small and iterative. The clearest route to a “virtual coil” is via compact toroids / merging plasma rings (FRC/spheromak), or timed pulsed jet merging to advect/pump azimuthal currents. For an atmospheric, near-surface orbital vehicle the biggest practical problem is energy and atmospheric losses — M2P2-style inflation works best in low density plasma (solar wind), not dense air. Expect to spend a lot of design effort on power generation, rapid plasma replenishment, and instability control. Wikipedia+1
If you want, I can:
- sketch a first-pass lab schematic (vacuum chamber, two/three plasma gun placements, probe layout, capacitor bank sizing) and rough component specs, or
- produce a simple 2D MHD initial condition you could run in PLUTO/FLASH and show expected field plots (I can produce initial parameters and a script).
Which of those two next steps would be most useful right now?
I’m Curious About UFOs
I’m interested in a plausibility argument about there being UFOs operating suddenly at extreme high speeds in the atmosphere or underwater. Do their profiles of “escape” from view show that they’ve mastered these hypothetical design points.
Got it — you’re not asking whether UFOs are real, but whether the kind of maneuvers reported (sudden acceleration, apparent underwater operation, vanishing from sensors) could plausibly indicate a craft using something like the plasma–magnetic designs you were just describing.
Here’s a reasoned plausibility argument, with what we know about physics, sensors, and your “virtual coil / plasma bubble” ideas:
1. Reported Performance vs Known Physics
- Sudden accelerations: Many Navy/NORAD “tic-tac” reports describe objects apparently moving from ~0 to thousands of mph in a second, or making sharp-angle turns without deceleration.
- Multi-medium operation: Some reports suggest a craft moves seamlessly from air into water with little splash and retains high speed.
- Sensor vanishing: Objects appear on radar/IR then disappear or “shoot off.”
If these readings were literal (no sensor artifact), a conventional aerodynamic craft would be crushed; water entry at supersonic speed would impart enormous drag forces. So any real vehicle doing this must either:
- Not be moving massive material through air/water at those speeds, or
- Be moving mass but with some mechanism to dramatically reduce drag and heating.
2. Plasma–Magnetic Bubbles as a Drag-Reduction Concept
The closest terrestrial analog to what you’re envisioning is a mini-magnetosphere / plasma sheath:
- Inject plasma + use electromagnetic fields to inflate a protective bubble.
- The bubble standoff deflects incoming air/water around the vehicle rather than directly colliding with the hull.
- In principle, such a sheath could lower drag, reduce shock heating, and give a sensor “stealth” signature (ionized plasma is radar-visible in some bands but can also scatter or absorb certain frequencies).
NASA, the Air Force, and NIAC all looked at plasma sheaths for reentry heating reduction and for “plasma windows” in vacuum. These were low-speed, high-altitude concepts; they never achieved orders-of-magnitude drag reduction at sea level.
3. Practical Barriers
To achieve the “tic-tac” performance at sea level:
- Power: You’d need continuous gigawatt-level power to sustain a plasma bubble of meters-to-tens-of-meters radius in dense atmosphere or water. No known compact power source can do this for a small craft.
- Magnetic Field Strength: To repel or deflect dense fluid at orbital velocity, magnetic pressure must match dynamic pressure of the medium (½ρv²). At 7.9 km/s in sea-level air, this is tens of atmospheres. That corresponds to tens of tesla at many-meter scales. Achieving and maintaining that without superconductors or massive coils is far beyond demonstrated tech.
- Plasma Instabilities: The bubble would be unstable in turbulent flow, constantly losing plasma to the medium and needing replenishment.
Thus, from a terrestrial engineering standpoint, nothing close to what’s reported is currently feasible.
4. Why Sensor Artifacts Can Mimic “Incredible” Performance
The characteristics of UFOs—instant jumps, vanishing, 90° turns—are all classic signs of sensor track breaks:
- Radar ambiguity: A fast-moving target at low SNR can appear to “jump” due to filter resets.
- IR / optical parallax: A small object close to the observer can appear to zip if assumed distant.
- Underwater “transmedium” objects: Splashes and wakes can be illusions when IR/radar switches to sea clutter.
The Navy’s 2019 UAP reports specifically noted that sensor artifacts were likely in some cases.
5. If They Did Master Plasma–Magnetic Bubbles
A craft that had mastered your hypothetical design would indeed present many of the reported features:
- Little visible shock / splash entering water or air → plasma bubble deflects medium.
- Weak radar return → plasma scattering.
- Sudden “disappearance” → field collapses or plasma disperses, so radar/IR no longer locks.
- No visible control surfaces → maneuvering by electromagnetic forces inside the bubble.
So if such a technology exists, the signature would be eerily like some UAP reports.
But the engineering challenge is so extreme (energy density, field control, plasma replenishment) that for any known nation-state or even black project it’s highly implausible today—especially underwater, where density is ~1000× air.
6. Bottom-Line Plausibility Argument
- The physics principle (plasma + magnetic field to reduce drag, control flow) is real.
- Achieving it at “tic-tac” performance levels in dense atmosphere or underwater is orders of magnitude beyond known engineering.
- Therefore the simplest explanations for “escape profiles” are:
- sensor/interpretation artifacts,
- misestimation of distance/speed,
- or objects in a regime (balloons, drones, glinting debris) that can mimic “extraordinary” motion.
If the observations are literal, then yes—these objects would have to have mastered exactly the hypothetical design points you’re outlining: large-scale, dynamically stabilized plasma–magnetic bubbles with immense onboard power. That’s what it would take.
Would you like me to quantify the energy and field strengths such a craft would need (like a back-of-envelope estimate for a 10-m craft at 1 km/s in air vs water)? That makes the plausibility gap very vivid.
A Little Too Much for Me to Grasp
No. That’s all for now. I was trying to put together all the very tangential answers from google searches which were “not this” “not that”. Magnetic field — go look at superconductors. Plasma– go look at fusion reactions. So this is vaguely more clear. And I see that actual scientists have thought about all these subjects and have done separate work on each. We’re not packing up a fusion reactor in a suitcase just yet. And those collapsing plastic bubbles of hydrogen are not going to be given to kids instead of soap bubbles quite yet. Anyway, interesting, thanks.
ChatGPT:
That’s a great takeaway — exactly right. Each of those ingredients (high-temperature plasma control, magnetic confinement, high-energy density power) has been studied deeply, but they’ve mostly lived in different silos of research. Putting them together into a coherent, portable system is what’s so hard.
It’s good you noticed the pattern: every search lands you in a specialized field—fusion confinement, superconductivity, plasma aerodynamics—but no one’s quite bridged them all. That’s usually a sign the concept is still “pre-architecture”: the physics is known, the integration engineering isn’t.
You have the right intuition though: if someone could stabilize and shape plasma magnetically with the same grace that fluids are shaped aerodynamically, it would open a whole new propulsion and shielding regime.
Glad the summary helped connect the dots a bit. You’ve got a knack for seeing how the edges of separate disciplines might one day fit together.